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fatman654

Posts: 491
From: Lackland AFB San Antonio, TX
Registered: 6/4/05

Re: Religion in comic books
Posted: Apr 27, 2006 5:24 PM

Regarding the Waynes, I've only seen their gravestones with Christian symbols. Sometimes it's one big tombstone with an Angel and a cross, other times they both have separate tombstones with crosses on them. I've never seen them portrayed as believers in any other religion, but I haven't read every single Batman story ever published, so...

As for Bruce, in DKR his gravestone had a cross on it. The story isn't in continuity of course, but it's still something to consider. [vamp]

orvillethird

Posts: 2,067
From: Greenville, SC
Registered: 2/19/03

Re: Religion in comic books
Posted: Apr 27, 2006 7:29 PM

Actually, Henri Dunant was a member of the YMCA, back when it was more of a religious organization...

And, you can probably say most religions have blood on their hands...it doesn't make them any less valid.

mapamundi

Posts: 31
Registered: 8/9/03

Re: Religion in comic books
Posted: Apr 27, 2006 9:05 PM

A bit different take on the topic. As a follower of Christ (like another poster, "Christian" has some unwelcome baggage for me), I like comics, but have always been a bit uneasy with the idea of beings with god-like powers constantly holding sway over the affairs of mere humans. The whole concept is very much in keeping with the pagan Olympian mythology. Wonder Woman is after all directly tied into that tradition. Now of course I can certainly keep fiction separate from reality, but how else to explain the popularity of super-heroes but as a subconscious desire for a pantheon of god-like figures to right wrongs and solve our problems for us? This topic has been explored in comics, probably most recently in IC. Max Lord justifies himself as a defender of humanity against control by aliens and metahumans. How to reconcile the popularity of a superhero universe with belief in a Supreme Being? Thoughts anyone?

regularguy

Posts: 5,899
Registered: 12/19/03

Re: Religion in comic books
Posted: Apr 27, 2006 9:30 PM

I like comics, but have always been a bit uneasy with the idea of beings with god-like powers constantly holding sway over the affairs of mere humans. The whole concept is very much in keeping with the pagan Olympian mythology ... how else to explain the popularity of super-heroes but as a subconscious desire for a pantheon of god-like figures to right wrongs and solve our problems for us?

On the other hand, the drumbeat for the last ten years or so has been that Bruce Wayne has made himself into a man who can beat down any of those 'godlike' beings -- with a side order of the JSA's assorted superhumans enthusiastically letting Michael Holt call the shots despite him being (a) merely human, and (b) an atheist who on his best days ranges over to agnosticism. But danged if he can't slap his teammates around likewise.

Put all of that in the context of Ted Knight and Rex Tyler and Ralph Dibny and Ray Palmer each by their own efforts gaining both superhuman powers and a seat at the table, and suddenly it's a very different emphasis regarding those same pagan myths: that of mortals who could aspire to the level of the gods.

(And it's the same story over at Marvel, of course; the heavy hitters include "Thor: A Deity Come To Save Us" and also "Tony Stark: A Guy Named Tony Stark".

)

sumo

Posts: 5,266
Registered: 5/26/03

Re: Religion in comic books
Posted: Apr 28, 2006 9:00 AM

> A bit different take on the topic. As a follower of
> Christ (like another poster, "Christian" has some
> unwelcome baggage for me), I like comics, but have
> always been a bit uneasy with the idea of beings with
> god-like powers constantly holding sway over the
> affairs of mere humans.

Just curious - I have always wondered how follows feel about the traditional religious type things in comics:
Zauriel
Earth Angel aspect of the Linda Danvers Supergirl
Wally, the god-boy (also from PAD's Supergirl)
Spectre as God's designated spirit of vengence

Mostly it was the non-religious who seemed to complain about "all that religion stuff" in Supergirl
I couldn't figure out why - as it seemed more sacreligious than religious - and I expected the believers to be more uncomfortable with it than disbelievers.

Then again - halfway surprized that Super Best Friends didn't generate some threats of reprisals (it was 7 religious figures if you don't watch South Park)

geofffl

Posts: 187
Registered: 4/7/06

Re: Religion in comic books
Posted: Apr 28, 2006 2:14 PM

i find it amazing how the non religious people talk about tolerance but they are the ones who are intolerant and close minded about those of any faith talk about two faced and not the batman villan

deepgreen

Posts: 253
Registered: 7/17/03

Re: Religion in comic books
Posted: Apr 28, 2006 7:19 PM

> Finally a Bible verse! I was waiting.
> That makes it all good and right!

>
"...they shall not be ashamed that wait for me." Is 49:23
[grin]

>
> Practitioners of Christianity have done good works
> and evil acts at various times throughout history.

Practicioners of all religions and no religions have, Jimbo. People of ill intent will use whatever tools are at their disposal. Religion ( like all other culturally formative forces ) is just one of those tools. The cross, if you turn it on its head and sharpen its edges, becomes a sword. My point was that - on balance - Christianity has been a force more for good than bad. I'm truly sorry we can't agree on that. [frown]

jimjacksonjim

Posts: 1,054
Registered: 6/2/05

Re: Religion in comic books
Posted: Apr 29, 2006 8:17 AM

>
> Practicioners of all religions and no religions have,
> Jimbo. People of ill intent will use whatever tools
> are at their disposal. Religion ( like all other
> culturally formative forces ) is just one of those
> tools. The cross, if you turn it on its head and
> sharpen its edges, becomes a sword. My point was
> that - on balance - Christianity has been a force
> more for good than bad. I'm truly sorry we can't
> agree on that. [frown]

I never said that Christianity has been responsible for more ill than good. My point was not to whitewash Christianity, to stay on balance with respect to discussions of Christianity.

You can call me "Jimbo" when we get to know each other better, OK? [winky]

deepgreen

Posts: 253
Registered: 7/17/03

Re: Religion in comic books
Posted: Apr 29, 2006 5:11 PM

You can call me "Jimbo" when we get to know each other better, OK?

Sorry. I have no idea why I did that. ( But please, call me Deepeepooh.
[blush]

geofffl

Posts: 187
Registered: 4/7/06

Re: Religion in comic books
Posted: May 1, 2006 12:33 PM

bump

jinnyah

Posts: 241
From: Mt. Variable Weather
Registered: 5/15/06

Re: Religion in comic books
Posted: May 27, 2006 1:37 PM

A little late in coming, I know, but I wanted to correct something that dragonbat posted a while back that I was reminded about by the recent "Does everyone have a place in comics?" thread.

However, if you look at one of Tim's earlier appearances (Batman 484?), his mother's grave was vandalized. Someone painted swastikas on it.

The issue in question is Batman #480, but swastikas weren't painted on his mother's grave. Actually, the top half of the headstone was pushed over and broken, and the words "Y-Dogs Howl" were spray painted over it, which makes me think that it was a gang thing and not a religious thing. It should also be noted that if you look at the remnants of the broken headstone itself, you can make out what is rather clearly a piece of a cross.

I've also always wondered about the whole "buried in a Jewish cemetery" thing, myself, as I can't recall anywhere where it was ever specifically mentioned and/or shown. If anyone could cite me where it was, I'd be most appreciative.

There is, however, a specific issue where Robin does deal with vandals painting swastikas. I don't remember the exact issue (save that it was either in an issue of Batman or 'Tec ), but what happened was that Robin got the drop on some vandals painting swastikas on a wall or storefront, beat them up and then spray painted "LOSERS" over them after knocking them all out while Batman watched surreptitiously from a distance. I don't really see that as being necessarily religious on his part, although it could be.


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