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docsavage

Posts: 712
Registered: 5/18/03

Re: Muslim characters in comics---breaking News!
Posted: Feb 1, 2006 2:57 AM

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2006/02/01/danish_papers_apology_fails_to_calm_protests/

Here are the most interesting parts (to me)-----

[begin excerpts]
"....In the Middle East and North Africa, however, rage seemed to be intensifying, with gun-waggling street demonstrations, denunciations of Denmark by political leaders, and expanding boycotts, according to television and wire service reports.....

In Tunisia, a group of interior ministers from Arab nations issued a statement yesterday demanding that Denmark ''take the necessary measures to punish those responsible [for] this harm..."

...In the Gaza Strip, thousands of Palestinian demonstrators chanted ''War on Denmark! Death to Denmark!" while burning flags from Denmark and its two Scandinavian neighbors, Norway and Sweden....

...But descriptions of the cartoons spread across the Islamic world in newspapers, on radio talk shows, and on websites, stirring outrage in nearly every part of the Middle East, North Africa, and South Asia."

[end of excerpts]

I don't have statistics. I don't have historical facts in front of me. I just have the feeling and recollection that this "intense level of reaction" seems to happen a LOT.

Yes, I know that Islam prohibits and is offended by depictions of the prophet, etc. But it does appear that very often when somone Islamic is offended it frequently escalates into a global incident.

My Western, half-informed [i.e. based on my readings, but not on first-hand knowledge] opinion/view is that there's got to be SOME reason why reactions like this occur frequently.

Quick questions running through my head:
Are Muslims this fervent about being offended by anything? Is someone stirring them up? Is this "natural and to be expected"? Does this incident require [insert name of Muslim superhero here] to restore calm and order, or set the wrong right? Is this another example of why many Westerners are nervous about Islam? Have any of you people on this site already heard about this, and what was your reaction?

Feel free to respond.

sandwraith

Posts: 815
Registered: 7/19/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics---breaking News!
Posted: Feb 1, 2006 4:06 AM

What can I say, us Muslims don't share the dark humour most Americans and Europeans have. Yes, someone is stirring them up and its usually in the form of uztazs or Imams who truly believe in the orthodoxy of the faith.

And as for the the burning of flags, English fans do it all the time at football matches, why not ask what's got them riled up?

The image of the Prophet is sacred to us. We're not as liberal as the West as to use religion in media in such manners (such as Preacher as great as it was). Maybe if you could show me the strip of the comic, I might be able to see why there's such a commotion. And as for Muslims getting riled up easily, don't be fooled. Look at Bosnia. While Muslims were getting slaughtered by Serbs was there a humongous outcry from the Arab world with the exception of a little Milqtoast in the UN? Hell, the Passion of the Christ sparked more concerned among the Jewish population in the States. My 'fellow' Muslims are simply using such things to try and counteract western scrutiny (and you know it's there in one form or another) of Islam since 911. If you had done this sometime in the early 90s, the Danish Muslims wouldn't even bat an eyebrow much less escalate into a world crisis/problem. Now that Islam has become the apparent focal point of terrorism, Muslims (those who care anyway) are very hypersensitive about the faith and how it's perceived. I may offend some people by saying this, but it's like talking to a German about how revolting the Nazis were without regard about how they feel. And that's how it is.

Timmy: sudahlah abang Tim. Aku punya bahasa dah hancur kau nak ajak aku berbual dalam bahasa Indonesia. Seperti ketam mengajar anak berjalan lurus [lol]

Hey who changed the title? As for Bin Laden on T-Shirts, once upon a time Charles Manson was on T-Shirts too. To some of the Muslim youth, Bin Laden is like Che Guevara, a revolutionary against the American machine, the type the impressionable youth of any nation idolized.

Message was edited by: sandwraith

icha2005

Posts: 613
Registered: 3/7/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 1, 2006 4:24 AM

Sandwraith: You're Indonesian? Cool, that makes us neighbours. Indonesia is a great place to be in although I can't stand bahasa Indonesia because I'm used to Malay or bahasa Malaysia...Also why "Moslem"? I thought most of the world decided to standardize things by calling us Muslims. Moslem sounds so...AmericanYeah I like Wonder Woman too...to bad I realized this nearly 3 issues before the series ends...

[lol]

Likewise! I hardly can understand Malay language, so I usually talked in English with my Malaysian friends. Such a funny world...

Hehe... I didn't even know the standardization of 'Muslim' instead of 'Moslem'... And glad you start to like Diana. She's a great lady.

Say... can you gimme a hint where to buy comics online in Singapore? I bet you live in Singapore! We don't have DC in Indonesia [frown]

I plan to ship it directly from the States, but in case you know...

Timmy: Aaya berbicara sedikit bahasa Malayu, dan jika dilakukan anda lalu kata saya kepada anda Mei Allah dengan anda, di kegelapan malam, dan di lampu hari!

[confused]

Timmy: You go girl and when you get their, start fighting for womens rights there too.

Thanks. God speed, I will.

Sandwraith: Sufism, REAL Sufism is more or less cutting yourself off from all material things such as your home, money, love, sex etc etc. They lived the lives of wandering Buddhist monks in Japan or China and were generally hated because they were considered hypocritical. The spinning guys you talk about are technically Dervishes and to be totally honest I don't know why they spin

[lol]

Think of Jallarudin Rumi when thinking Sufi. I love them, because they are peaceful people. Darvis means 'the dancer/lover of God'. Dancer, or lover, I forgot, but something like that. Someone who loves the Almighty so much, they decide to dance, swirl and spin in the ecstasy of His/Her Love.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi_whirling

By the way, got an interesting info on the Janissaries (where the heroine Jannisary got her name from):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary

Don't you just love Wikipedia?

icha2005

Posts: 613
Registered: 3/7/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics---breaking News!
Posted: Feb 1, 2006 4:32 AM

Sandwraith:
Timmy: sudahlah abang Tim. Aku punya bahasa dah hancur kau nak ajak aku berbual dalam bahasa Indonesia. Seperti ketam mengajar anak berjalan lurus

Hey who changed the title? As for Bin Laden on T-Shirts, once upon a time Charles Manson was on T-Shirts too. To some of the Muslim youth, Bin Laden is like Che Guevara, a revolutionary against the American machine, the type the impressionable youth of any nation idolized.

Sand, Tim, you guys really gotta fix your Indo/Malay language [supergrin]

Docsavage changed the title a bit.

An Australian friend of mine wore a 'great' shirt in Bali last year: 'Osama don't surf'. That tshirt attracted the attention of a photographer of the Jakarta Post (our New York Times).

Sand, you online? email me at putuliza@yahoo.com if you wanna chat more. Am still fixing my stuffs here.

sandwraith

Posts: 815
Registered: 7/19/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics---breaking News!
Posted: Feb 1, 2006 5:10 AM

Lost in Translation...and we're just one Straits apart....

docsavage

Posts: 712
Registered: 5/18/03

this is the subject line
Posted: Feb 1, 2006 8:21 AM

When you are posting your note and typing in the "message" box, look a few inches up and you will see the "Subject"
box. I changed it on my posting this morning when I posted about the Boston Globe article. I did it to get people's attention. Alas, given time changes, it may not have been 'breaking news' to many.

The Subject line that is used by default is the subject line for the posting at which you clicked the reply link.

So, you can change the subject line yourself at any time, or you can choose a subject line from any previous posting.

Sandwraith, thanks for the viewpoint from the other side of the world! Timmy, I'm glad you found a new friend. Now, if only babelfish.com listed Arabic, Malaysian, and a few more of the world's six thousand languages, I might be able to figure out what you're saying! [smile]

timmmythekaye

Posts: 448
From: Baltimore
Registered: 7/25/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics---breaking News!
Posted: Feb 1, 2006 11:52 AM

> Sandwraith:
> Timmy: sudahlah abang Tim. Aku punya bahasa dah
> hancur kau nak ajak aku berbual dalam bahasa
> Indonesia. Seperti ketam mengajar anak berjalan
> lurus
>
> Hey who changed the title? As for Bin Laden on
> T-Shirts, once upon a time Charles Manson was on
> T-Shirts too. To some of the Muslim youth, Bin Laden
> is like Che Guevara, a revolutionary against the
> American machine, the type the impressionable youth
> of any nation idolized.

Difference being foreign dissidents were'nt highjacking planes and trying to get nukes in the name of Allah or Charles Manson because of them. The comparison is almost offensive, Maybe it would be best if you said some German youth also wore swastika's, so that makes it ok?

>
> Sand, Tim, you guys really gotta fix your Indo/Malay
> language [supergrin]

No doubt, my wifes' mohter loves laughing at me when I attempt it...

>
> Docsavage changed the title a bit.
>
> An Australian friend of mine wore a 'great' shirt in
> Bali last year: 'Osama don't surf'. That tshirt
> attracted the attention of a photographer of the
> Jakarta Post (our New York Times).

That's Bali, if only all of Indsonesia were more like Bali.

>
> Sand, you online? email me at putuliza@yahoo.com if
> you wanna chat more. Am still fixing my stuffs here.

texmex1

Posts: 4,356
From: England unconquered since 1066 and counting
Registered: 4/19/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics---breaking News!
Posted: Feb 1, 2006 12:16 PM

LOL. You know Tex, when I saw you had replied to this thread I was scared shyitless that you were gonna drop a "texmex1ism" on board. Nice to see you on the thread man

Is that like a Mulderism? [cowboy]

timmmythekaye

Posts: 448
From: Baltimore
Registered: 7/25/05

Re: this is the subject line
Posted: Feb 1, 2006 12:35 PM

> When you are posting your note and typing in the
> "message" box, look a few inches up and you will see
> the "Subject"
> box. I changed it on my posting this morning when I
> posted about the Boston Globe article. I did it to
> get people's attention. Alas, given time changes, it
> may not have been 'breaking news' to many.
>
> The Subject line that is used by default is the
> subject line for the posting at which you clicked the
> reply link.
>
> So, you can change the subject line yourself at any
> time, or you can choose a subject line from any
> previous posting.
>
> Sandwraith, thanks for the viewpoint from the other
> side of the world! Timmy, I'm glad you found a new
> friend. Now, if only babelfish.com listed Arabic,
> Malaysian, and a few more of the world's six thousand
> languages, I might be able to figure out what you're
> saying! [smile]

I just said in broken Indonesian that I hope God stays with him in the light of day and the dark of night....

sandwraith

Posts: 815
Registered: 7/19/05

Re: this is the subject line
Posted: Feb 1, 2006 6:00 PM

In Malay that would be:

Saya harap bahawa cahaya Allah mengikuti kamu di pagi dan dalam hitam malam.

Believe me Tim, my Malay friends hate my Malay so much they're polite enough to strain themselves to speak English. Kind of funny to watch too.

docsavage

Posts: 712
Registered: 5/18/03

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 2, 2006 2:53 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4670370.stm

http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2006/02/02/prophet_mohammed_cartoons_are_republished/

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,398667,00.html

sandwraith

Posts: 815
Registered: 7/19/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 2, 2006 5:18 AM

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,398708,00.html

thanks for the post doc. Mr.de Leon's statement of how the lack of education amongst the Islamic youth remains a dangerous element. As I've said before, if these kids are taught both of religion and worldly matters we may be able to stem terrorism. They go into terrorism because they believe it's right, because as far as the Madrasahs/Wahabbis are concerned, it's the only way to combat the "Imperialistic American Machine". Muslims today forget the first word that the Arkangel Gabriel or Jibril as he's called in Arabic said to Muhammad: Iq'ra. Read (or recite in some translations). They've forgotten it...an I'm sorry to see it in such a state...

docsavage

Posts: 712
Registered: 5/18/03

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 2, 2006 6:17 AM

Over the last five years (meaning DURING the current USA administration), I have learned the importance of checking news resources that are OUTSIDE the USA.

There IS filtering going on, there IS some censorship going on---in the USA.

This is why every day I check CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, and multile newspapers---so I can check multiple sources.

THEN I try to get the non-USA perspective: I check the BBC and Al JaZeera (English).

Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch auch, damit ich die Deutsche Zeitung lesen. (My German is not great, barely conversational, but I can get the 'jist' of what is going on, or use a dictionary or an online translator)

Another site I check every few days is The Middle East Research Institute:
http://www.memri.org/

If any of you can suggest good outside-USA news sources that you think people should know about, please tell us about them.

timmmythekaye

Posts: 448
From: Baltimore
Registered: 7/25/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 2, 2006 8:32 AM

The Jakarta Post is written in English and the op-ed gives a balanced approach to Indonesian Politcs. The Economist (english) gives a good well rounded approach to world economics and is worth the online subcription rate, Canada has The Star (toronto), The Economic times in India is a very influential paper in Asia as is the Time of India, The Jerusalem Post (which can be very criticial if Israeli politics at times) is a interesting balalnce, The Tehran Times is good a read albeit mostly Mullah propaganda, Singapore Business Times gives a more global view than anythying else coming out of Singapore, Any Japanese paper is worth a read considering the economic might of Japan, I like the Tokyo Kaleidscope, Jong Ang Daily News in seoul can be hard hitting but very nationalistic (makes sense) The China Times in Taiwan gives an alternative view of China (albeit very Pro-western) and I prefer the Nation in Thailand. O Globo in Brazil is an important paper consider Brazil is on the rise and El Universal in Venezuala is informative, hard to find article in English, but there are great translation tools online. Remmeber also the Venezualan papers are coerced by the chavez regime as well. The Chrisitan Science monitor, albeit not Christian in anyway is good journalism. With the rise of th intenet its all availbable. Whenever reading about a spot in the world I try to read al least two national papers as well as a more international paper to get my news.

You claimed censorship on the part of American Newspapers, I'd like you to cite examples. considering american Newpapers sell as good overseas as here, I'm not sure I buy into this. Foreign Affairs and the NY Times are two examples of papaers that are beholden to noone it would seem....It has become freer and freer, at least we're not locking up journalists on a weekly basis like FDR and Truman did. If you get your news from TV, well, TV is entertainment and thats simply what you will get. If you want news, I'd avoid TV all together.

Although I agree American New Channels and papers have their agendas, America still has the freeest press internationally.

timmmythekaye

Posts: 448
From: Baltimore
Registered: 7/25/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics---breaking News!
Posted: Feb 2, 2006 8:35 AM

> LOL. You know Tex, when I saw you had replied to this
> thread I was scared shyitless that you were gonna
> drop a "texmex1ism" on board. Nice to see you on the
> thread man
>
> Is that like a Mulderism? [cowboy]

Yes, but more texmex1ish...


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